Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/04/1995 10:00 AM House STA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
WORK SESSION
February 4, 1995
10:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Jeannette James, Chair
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chair
Representative Ivan Ivan
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Caren Robinson
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ed Willis
Representative Joe Green
OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Pete Kelly
Representative Tom Brice
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 105
"An Act relating to regulations of state agencies and to
administrative hearings, amending the Administrative Procedure Act,
and establishing the division of regulations; and providing for an
effective date."
WITNESS REGISTER
JACK KEINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst
Office of Management and Budget
Office of the Governor
P.O. Box 110001
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0001
Telephone: (907) 465-4678
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided comments on HB 105.
NANCY BEAR USERA
P.O. Box 196613
Anchorage, Alaska 99519-6613
Telephone: (907) 277-5577
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided comments on HB 105.
BRENDA WILCOX
Address not available
Telephone: (907) not available
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided comments on HB 105
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110601
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601
Telephone: (907) 465-3030
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided comments on HB 105.
GARREY PESKA
P.O. Box 240185
Douglas, Alaska 99824
Telephone: (907) 364-2244
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided comments on HB 105.
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 105
SHORT TITLE : REGULATIONS AND ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/20/95 102 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/20/95 102 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/04/95 (H) STA AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 102
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-08, SIDE A
Number 000
HB 105 REGULATIONS AND ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
CHAIR JEANNETTE JAMES opened the work session stating HB 105 was
not in final form. She welcomed input from the audience and the
committee. She indicated the information she came across was
negative towards the current regulatory process. She offered two
ways to change the system - either modifying the current system or
completely starting over. Chair James suggested to the committee
they take the approach of starting over rather than modifying the
current system. She addressed the issue of an insufficient public
input system. She recommended the establishment of a regulatory
writing group. She asserted fiscal responsibility was paramount
and suggested the revised regulatory process should incorporate a
professional regulatory writing group with more public and
legislative input. She welcomed the committee members and the
audience to air their concerns first and talk about solutions
later.
Number 180
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN said he was associated with a regulatory
agency, the Big Game Commercial Services Board. Regulatory
agencies, he stated, had a lot of authority allowing room for
abuse. As a result, there was a potential for intimidation,
blackmail and capitulating to demands which violated the due
process rights granted in the United States Constitution. He
further asserted regulations were not written in accordance with
intended statutes.
Number 255
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER stated his main issue with regulations
were that they often exceeded the specific statute that empowered
them or the intent of the legislature. He also expressed his
concern about the cost of the regulations to the private sector.
Number 290
REPRESENTATIVE CARIN ROBINSON agreed to the above statement made by
Representative Porter. She further stated regulations were often
released at bad times and hard for the "lay-person" to understand.
Representative Robinson also asserted the legislature should take
a more responsive role in the regulatory process.
Number 331
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN stated his main concern for Western Alaska
was regulations unintentionally inhibit small businesses and
economic development.
Number 370
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said the size of the state government had
increased at an unprecedented rate which created more regulations
and more peopled needed to interpret those regulations. He further
stated Alaska was known domestically and internationally as a
regulatory state which inhibited business. Representative Ogan
alleged the state had too much money contributing significantly to
this problem. He also commented the average person should be able
to comprehend a regulation.
Number 420
CHAIR JAMES stated that regulations were often written from an
enforcement position and regulatory writers often failed to get the
input from those who implement them. She concluded by identifying
the specific problems such as the regulation writers, the
regulation language, and the lack of viable public input.
Number 470
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN expressed his concern about the committee
creating a "mini" legislature.
Number 495
JACK KEINHEDER, Senior Policy Analyst, Office of Management and
Budget, Office of the Governor, started by expressing his
appreciation of the committee and the approach taken by defining
the problem(s) first rather than attacking specific bill language.
He further stated staff agency members that had any comments should
address the committee directly.
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY stated he was in attendance to listen.
Number 515
NANCY BEAR USERA stated she was associated with a regulated
industry. Ms. Usera asserted that regulations were necessary
because they were the rules that dictated business which stemmed
from public policy. Ms. Usera agreed with previous testimony on
issues that addressed the regulatory writers and statutes. She
further asserted a need to look at the assumptions. The
Administration, she stated, appeared to be more concerned with form
rather than substance. Ms. Usera also stated the failure to attach
the cost of the regulations to the benefit of society, business and
the market place was a problem. She addressed the need for further
accountability and proper funding. Lastly, she mentioned the need
for a follow-up process to further ensure the intent of the
regulation.
Number 594
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked Ms. Usera if there was a need for a
single regulatory writing department.
MS. USERA answered that, currently, the program managers were the
ones that drove the regulation writing along with the Department of
Law. She alluded a third regulatory oversite was needed. She
further stated that "where" a regulation was drafted was not the
central issue as long as it was well thought through.
Number 620
BRENDA WILCOX, former staff member to Lt. Governor Coghill,
described a regulation litmus test that addressed and took into
account wording, comprehension, and public input. She also
asserted legislative intent should remain part of the statute. Ms.
Wilcox further advised agencies should be made responsive to an
elected official allowing easier public access.
TAPE 95-08, SIDE B
Number 040
JACK KEINHEDER asked if there were any staff members from agencies
present to testify.
Number 049
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue,
Department of Health and Social Services, stated his agency was
very interested in the topic of regulation reform due to the large
amount of regulations effecting the department. He provided a list
of such regulations to the committee. He announced his department
was concerned about "yet another agency" involved in the regulatory
process as structured by HB 105. He asserted expertise was at the
division level due to the large volume and complexity of
regulations involved. He further alleged there would be no savings
due to the transition of training individuals to understand the
regulation process, especially, in his department.
Number 195
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON asked for some regulation examples from Mr.
Lindstrom's list.
Number 200
MR. LINDSTROM answered by recounting examples such as public health
lab fees, audits, penalties, and appeals related to health care
facilities, and certification of nursing home beds. Mr. Lindstrom
further stated each of these regulations demanded a lot of staff
time. He also said he had seen regulations changed as a result of
the public process.
Number 245
CHAIR JAMES commented on an example of a "regulation gone wrong"
and changed by the public process. The example recalled was the
collection of child support regulation which ultimately harmed
those paying child support regularly. She asserted the regulation
was not thought through properly and the public acted accordingly.
Number 285
MR. LINDSTROM responded by stating there were, commonly, unforeseen
results of regulations.
Number 310
CHAIR JAMES called for a break.
CHAIR JAMES called the work session back to order asking the
committee members and the audience to bring forth any specific
current problems and recommended solutions to those problems.
Number 325
GARREY PESKA stated he was associated with the Alaska State
Hospital and Nursing Association, but was not here representing
them. He expressed his concern regarding the public hearing
process. He held that at best public hearings were perfunctory and
the public was not clear if their comments were taken into account.
He suggested as a solution that agencies be required to list in
writing all public comment(s) and state how they did or did not
accommodate those comment(s). Furthermore, he suggested when
substantive changes were made, a further public hearing was in
order.
Number 370
CHAIR JAMES supported Mr. PesKa's testimony by illustrating the
problems surrounding the concealed carry permit regulation. She
stated the regulation was rewritten after the public review process
but was never put forth to the public again for further discussion
due to time constraints. Consequently, the agency had to make
administrative changes within. She suggested all regulations need
to follow the same process.
Number 348
MS. USERA proposed an eight step approach to incorporate into the
regulatory process. The eight step approach included policy
statements, affected parties, market impact, regulatory resources
required, cost, performance measures, evaluation periods, and
accountability. She further proposed the establishment of a
regulatory oversite committee to appropriate the necessary funds.
Ms. Usera said the proposed oversite committee could not change
regulations because that was an executive branch power but by
attaching an appropriation oversite created another check and
balance in the system.
Number 568
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Ms. Usera what the limitations were in
regard to the separation of powers between the executive and
legislative branch in respect to regulation reform.
Number 580
MS. USERA answered the legislature had the final say with regard to
appropriations.
Number 585
CHAIR JAMES stated the legislature gave the authority to the
Administration via the Administrative Procedure Act to make
regulations. She also addressed Mr. Porter's question describing
the Colorado Plan which encompassed a functioning regulatory review
committee that reviewed and made statute recommendations to the
state legislature which ultimately had to be approved by the
Governor. Chair James cited the plan did not breech the separation
of powers.
Number 625
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER also expressed his concern regarding the
potential to go against the separation of powers.
Number 638
REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE asked what the difference was between the
proposed legislative regulatory oversite committee and their power
to appropriate funds and the fiscal note process already
established.
Number 646
MS. USERA responded that bills changed too quickly during the
legislative process and those changes typically did not consider
the impact on how the agency implemented the regulation or the cost
to the public.
Number 666
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented there needed to be a careful balance
between strict and nebulous legislative statutes which perpetuated
the need for more regulation.
Number 690
CHAIR JAMES responded the learning curve of a legislator was very
steep and at times she felt nervous about passing certain
legislation. She further stated the public was already nervous
about the legislative process in general and even more so with
respect to the regulation process. She did not blame the
regulatory writers but rather the process. Chair James suggested
they ease the public concerns.
TAPE 95-09, SIDE A
Number 000
MS. USERA expressed her approach met everyone's needs. The
agencies would appreciate the appropriated funding, the legislature
would be assured the regulations were in agreement with the
underlying statutes, and the people had a clearer understanding of
their power in the review process.
Number 035
CHAIR JAMES expressed her appreciation of Ms. Usera's time and
comments. She stated they were very helpful. Chair James
continued by expressing there should be more hoops in the system
thereby deterring unnecessary regulation(s) and serving the
public's needs better.
Number 052
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER disclosed facetiously that Chair James and he
a few years back suggested before a statute was passed an existing
one should be eliminated. He suggested the committee consider that
with regulations.
Number 066
CHAIR JAMES declared her bill was drafted to create a complete new
regulatory processes to include all effected. She further stated
in the past regulatory statutes had exempted agencies from the
Administrative Act. She asserted in her bill there were no
exemptions. She stated agencies that thought they should be
exempted would have to come forth with their reasons. Chair James
concluded by asking the committee members to further evaluate
statutes and respond to her in writing. She called for another
work session and recommended a teleconference.
Number 157
REPRESENTATIVE IVAN suggested a weekday was better for the next
meeting.
Number 170
CHAIR JAMES responded the next available weekday for a work session
was February 16, 1995 from 8:00 - 10:00 a.m.
Number 212
REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON requested a copy of materials from Chair
James for review.
CHAIR JAMES adjourned the session and thanked those who came.
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